THIS IS A GENTLEMAN, RETIRED MILITARY, LIVING ON THE MISSISSIPPI GULF COAST, WHO CONTACTED ME ABOUT HIS WIFE’S THYROID PROBLEMS:
Sorry you and your wife are having these difficulties.
Your email didn’t say how you found me, but you may be aware that I did my residency at Keesler Medical Center and was an endocrinologist there from 1992 to 1998—also Asst Chief of Medicine for some of that time.
To cut to the chase—I certainly agree that your wife has a compelling collection of symptoms suspicious for hypothyroidism. That doesn’t prove she is hypothyroid, but in my opinion a trial of an effective dose of thyroid hormone replacement is warranted in order to help make that determination, regardless of her labs.
The clinical scenario of hypothyroid symptoms in the face of normal thyroid function testing is a common one, and most healthcare providers—endocrinologists included—don’t do a good job of managing it, in my opinion. That said: no physician with a thorough knowledge of thyroid physiology and pathophysiology would deny that there are some situations in which hypothyroidism does manifest with little or no lab abnormality. I happen to think that situation is common, but most would say it’s rare. Rare or not, that’s not a reason not to consider it in the right setting.
I boggles me why most physicians seem so much more willing to use the latest expensive, side-effect-laden antidepressant, than thyroid hormone—a relatively inexpensive drug, with in one form or another, over a century of user experience, and it’s a molecule that either God or nature (depending on your belief system) intended to be there. I don’t dismiss the risks of inappropriate thyroid hormone use, but whatever else you want to say, it is something that is supposed to be in the human circulation.
You mention CPAP, suggesting she has sleep apnea—which is actually a condition that can blunt the rise in TSH one expects with low thyroid levels. Thus, it’s easy to speculate that her labs might not be classically indicative of hypothyroid. It is my belief that depression, antidepressant drugs, and possibly even obesity might do the same thing.
So, to summarize, I agree with your desire for a thyroid replacement trial. The next question is what form that trial should take. I occasionally use Armour thyroid but it isn’t my first choice. Most physician’s trained since the 1970s are going to consider it an obsolete drug. You don’t say why the trial XXX had was with Armour—I’m assuming there was some insistence on your part, since that’s not a drug most mainstream doctors these days would automatically reach for, even if they were inclined to use thyroid hormone.
My point being, any determination that you might be expressing that she get Armour, is automatically going to double the resistance you encounter: you’re getting resistance over treatment despite normal labs, and added resistance over the use of a drug viewed as obsolete, unfamiliar at best, dangerous or quackish at worst.
The doses of Armour she was given are very low, especially for someone weighing 200 pounds—so it does not surprise me that she got no benefit. You mention her T4 didn’t rise—my guess is her T3 did rise some, just not enough to do any good. They haven’t ever checked a T3 on her, you said—at the very least they should have when she was on Armour since T4 and T3 are active ingredients in that product.
While there are some patients who do benefit from T3 supplementation either in the form of Armour, or other products that are available, most hypothyroid patients do just fine on T4-only replacement, such as Synthroid, or other largely equivalent products. I myself have taken Synthroid with life-changing results for 20 years. I realize there is a notion floating around out there—promoted by some books and some so-called “experts” on the internet—that Synthroid doesn’t work. For most patients this is just plain wrong; however I believe that that impression has grown out of doctors’ reluctance to push Synthroid doses to high enough levels to be effective—scared off by, for example, low TSH levels.
In other words, mainstream hypothyroidism management is hampered by both a reluctance to start thyroid hormone, and a reluctance to use enough when it is started.
In short, I would advise a trial of Synthroid in gradually escalating doses. That’s not something I could order without face-to-face evaluation and follow up. After all, if we’re coloring outside the lines, it is even more important to monitor the outcomes closely to be sure we aren’t doing more harm than good—and that we are, in fact, doing some good.
I don’t know if any provider there might be willing to work with you on the basis of my comments—that’s worth a try, but I don’t have a name I can give you. You don’t say whether you have my book The Thyroid Paradox, which is all about this brick wall you’re running into. Not trying to sell you a copy, and it won’t get you a doctor, but at least you might understand the issues better.
I do have a few patients who come a long distance to see me for reasons similar to yours, so that is an option if you’re willing. If you can get somebody to draw a Free T4, Free T3, and TSH on Mrs. XXX, you could fax that to me and I might be able to give you a better idea how likely it is I think I can help, but the bottom line is, we won’t really know without trying it.
Best,
jkr
Sorry you and your wife are having these difficulties.
Your email didn’t say how you found me, but you may be aware that I did my residency at Keesler Medical Center and was an endocrinologist there from 1992 to 1998—also Asst Chief of Medicine for some of that time.
To cut to the chase—I certainly agree that your wife has a compelling collection of symptoms suspicious for hypothyroidism. That doesn’t prove she is hypothyroid, but in my opinion a trial of an effective dose of thyroid hormone replacement is warranted in order to help make that determination, regardless of her labs.
The clinical scenario of hypothyroid symptoms in the face of normal thyroid function testing is a common one, and most healthcare providers—endocrinologists included—don’t do a good job of managing it, in my opinion. That said: no physician with a thorough knowledge of thyroid physiology and pathophysiology would deny that there are some situations in which hypothyroidism does manifest with little or no lab abnormality. I happen to think that situation is common, but most would say it’s rare. Rare or not, that’s not a reason not to consider it in the right setting.
I boggles me why most physicians seem so much more willing to use the latest expensive, side-effect-laden antidepressant, than thyroid hormone—a relatively inexpensive drug, with in one form or another, over a century of user experience, and it’s a molecule that either God or nature (depending on your belief system) intended to be there. I don’t dismiss the risks of inappropriate thyroid hormone use, but whatever else you want to say, it is something that is supposed to be in the human circulation.
You mention CPAP, suggesting she has sleep apnea—which is actually a condition that can blunt the rise in TSH one expects with low thyroid levels. Thus, it’s easy to speculate that her labs might not be classically indicative of hypothyroid. It is my belief that depression, antidepressant drugs, and possibly even obesity might do the same thing.
So, to summarize, I agree with your desire for a thyroid replacement trial. The next question is what form that trial should take. I occasionally use Armour thyroid but it isn’t my first choice. Most physician’s trained since the 1970s are going to consider it an obsolete drug. You don’t say why the trial XXX had was with Armour—I’m assuming there was some insistence on your part, since that’s not a drug most mainstream doctors these days would automatically reach for, even if they were inclined to use thyroid hormone.
My point being, any determination that you might be expressing that she get Armour, is automatically going to double the resistance you encounter: you’re getting resistance over treatment despite normal labs, and added resistance over the use of a drug viewed as obsolete, unfamiliar at best, dangerous or quackish at worst.
The doses of Armour she was given are very low, especially for someone weighing 200 pounds—so it does not surprise me that she got no benefit. You mention her T4 didn’t rise—my guess is her T3 did rise some, just not enough to do any good. They haven’t ever checked a T3 on her, you said—at the very least they should have when she was on Armour since T4 and T3 are active ingredients in that product.
While there are some patients who do benefit from T3 supplementation either in the form of Armour, or other products that are available, most hypothyroid patients do just fine on T4-only replacement, such as Synthroid, or other largely equivalent products. I myself have taken Synthroid with life-changing results for 20 years. I realize there is a notion floating around out there—promoted by some books and some so-called “experts” on the internet—that Synthroid doesn’t work. For most patients this is just plain wrong; however I believe that that impression has grown out of doctors’ reluctance to push Synthroid doses to high enough levels to be effective—scared off by, for example, low TSH levels.
In other words, mainstream hypothyroidism management is hampered by both a reluctance to start thyroid hormone, and a reluctance to use enough when it is started.
In short, I would advise a trial of Synthroid in gradually escalating doses. That’s not something I could order without face-to-face evaluation and follow up. After all, if we’re coloring outside the lines, it is even more important to monitor the outcomes closely to be sure we aren’t doing more harm than good—and that we are, in fact, doing some good.
I don’t know if any provider there might be willing to work with you on the basis of my comments—that’s worth a try, but I don’t have a name I can give you. You don’t say whether you have my book The Thyroid Paradox, which is all about this brick wall you’re running into. Not trying to sell you a copy, and it won’t get you a doctor, but at least you might understand the issues better.
I do have a few patients who come a long distance to see me for reasons similar to yours, so that is an option if you’re willing. If you can get somebody to draw a Free T4, Free T3, and TSH on Mrs. XXX, you could fax that to me and I might be able to give you a better idea how likely it is I think I can help, but the bottom line is, we won’t really know without trying it.
Best,
jkr